Scrutable

Fascinating thread here on a realignment that's going on in US politics with increasing support for Republicans amongst Black and minority ethnic groups: https://x.com/jburnmurdoch/status/17671 ... 65639?s=20

As the US becomes less racially segregated socially conservative voters from racial groups who traditionally voted Democrat are becoming less worried about voting Republican. It seems that when your whole social group is from your own racial group then social norms are stronger and you'll keep voting Democrat like everyone else. But once you start mixing more with groups who already vote Republican (eg, whites) the social stigma of doing so drops and you can start voting Republican.

Worrying trend for the Democrats!

Tristan wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 11, 2024 4:39 pm

Fascinating thread here on a realignment that's going on in US politics with increasing support for Republicans amongst Black and minority ethnic groups: https://x.com/jburnmurdoch/status/17671 ... 65639?s=20

As the US becomes less racially segregated socially conservative voters from racial groups who traditionally voted Democrat are becoming less worried about voting Republican. It seems that when your whole social group is from your own racial group then social norms are stronger and you'll keep voting Democrat like everyone else. But once you start mixing more with groups who already vote Republican (eg, whites) the social stigma of doing so drops and you can start voting Republican.

Worrying trend for the Democrats!

You really think that large numbers of minorities are going to vote for the party that is openly anti-Latino, anti-Black, anti-Asian and antisemitic, and that regularly espouses white-replacement theories?

There's direct electoral evidence against the idea, as well - the south-west US, with a high latino population, is getting bluer over recent elections. All of the senators from AZ, CO, NM and NV caucus with the Democrats. Biden won them all.

And all of this claim relies on small sample polls of hard to poll groups, where selection bias is rising rapidly.

dyqik wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 11, 2024 4:46 pm

Tristan wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 11, 2024 4:39 pm

Fascinating thread here on a realignment that's going on in US politics with increasing support for Republicans amongst Black and minority ethnic groups: https://x.com/jburnmurdoch/status/17671 ... 65639?s=20

As the US becomes less racially segregated socially conservative voters from racial groups who traditionally voted Democrat are becoming less worried about voting Republican. It seems that when your whole social group is from your own racial group then social norms are stronger and you'll keep voting Democrat like everyone else. But once you start mixing more with groups who already vote Republican (eg, whites) the social stigma of doing so drops and you can start voting Republican.

Worrying trend for the Democrats!

You really think that large numbers of minorities are going to vote for the party that is openly anti-Latino, anti-Black, anti-Asian and antisemitic, and that regularly espouses white-replacement theories?

The main statistical problem seems to be that the graph doesn't show a recent increase in R vote from minorities. It has been pretty much flat over the last 40 years. It did grow before then, though.

Trump achieved an increased vote from minorities in 2020 than he did in 2016. I think rather too much is being deduced from just 2 data points. Similarly large R votes from minorities occurred in 1984, 2000 and 2004. And these votes are around 25%. The arrows on the graph suggesting the vote rapidly approaching 50% doesn't seem to have much basis.

IvanV wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 11, 2024 5:12 pm

dyqik wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 11, 2024 4:46 pm

Tristan wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 11, 2024 4:39 pm

Fascinating thread here on a realignment that's going on in US politics with increasing support for Republicans amongst Black and minority ethnic groups: https://x.com/jburnmurdoch/status/17671 ... 65639?s=20

As the US becomes less racially segregated socially conservative voters from racial groups who traditionally voted Democrat are becoming less worried about voting Republican. It seems that when your whole social group is from your own racial group then social norms are stronger and you'll keep voting Democrat like everyone else. But once you start mixing more with groups who already vote Republican (eg, whites) the social stigma of doing so drops and you can start voting Republican.

Worrying trend for the Democrats!

You really think that large numbers of minorities are going to vote for the party that is openly anti-Latino, anti-Black, anti-Asian and antisemitic, and that regularly espouses white-replacement theories?

The main statistical problem seems to be that the graph doesn't show a recent increase in R vote from minorities. It has been pretty much flat over the last 40 years. It did grow before then, though.

Trump achieved an increased vote from minorities in 2020 than he did in 2016. I think rather too much is being deduced from just 2 data points. Similarly large R votes from minorities occurred in 1984, 2000 and 2004. And these votes are around 25%. The arrows on the graph suggesting the vote rapidly approaching 50% doesn't seem to have much basis.

Yes, my first thought was "that extrapolation is doing a lot of work."

IvanV wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 11, 2024 5:12 pm

dyqik wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 11, 2024 4:46 pm

Tristan wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 11, 2024 4:39 pm

Fascinating thread here on a realignment that's going on in US politics with increasing support for Republicans amongst Black and minority ethnic groups: https://x.com/jburnmurdoch/status/17671 ... 65639?s=20

As the US becomes less racially segregated socially conservative voters from racial groups who traditionally voted Democrat are becoming less worried about voting Republican. It seems that when your whole social group is from your own racial group then social norms are stronger and you'll keep voting Democrat like everyone else. But once you start mixing more with groups who already vote Republican (eg, whites) the social stigma of doing so drops and you can start voting Republican.

Worrying trend for the Democrats!

You really think that large numbers of minorities are going to vote for the party that is openly anti-Latino, anti-Black, anti-Asian and antisemitic, and that regularly espouses white-replacement theories?

The main statistical problem seems to be that the graph doesn't show a recent increase in R vote from minorities. It has been pretty much flat over the last 40 years. It did grow before then, though.

Trump achieved an increased vote from minorities in 2020 than he did in 2016. I think rather too much is being deduced from just 2 data points. Similarly large R votes from minorities occurred in 1984, 2000 and 2004. And these votes are around 25%. The arrows on the graph suggesting the vote rapidly approaching 50% doesn't seem to have much basis.

The idea that Trump got an increased vote from minorities in 2020 is an extrapolation from selective polls and attempts to fit precinct level electoral results, and has error bars. Funnily enough, electoral data doesn't tell you exactly who voted for whom in the election.

One specific minority that does seem to vote Republican at over 50%, reportedly, is Cubans. Because of their specific policies towards Cuba, in contrast to Obama's more cooperative approach. This may be a material factor in the current strength of the Republicans in Florida.

IvanV wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 12, 2024 8:49 am

One specific minority that does seem to vote Republican at over 50%, reportedly, is Cubans. Because of their specific policies towards Cuba, in contrast to Obama's more cooperative approach. This may be a material factor in the current strength of the Republicans in Florida.

Yeah, this is another major issue with the idea of racial realignment: treating Latinos as a uniform group who all think the same, when in reality there are multiple populations of Latino groups from different backgrounds and countries, some concentrated in different states.

Cubans are most prominent in Florida politics, Tejano in Texas, others elsewhere. If Cubans and Tejano are moving GOPwards, it makes little difference to swing states or election results - Texas and Florida are at best stretch goals for any Democrat campaign. But it'd show up here as "Latinos moving to the GOP".

Given how much trump was and is determined to hate on Mexicans, I can't see why any Latinos would vote for him. But then stupid isn't just limited to white repugnicans when it comes to Texas.

I think it's pretty clear that trump has never actually met any actual Mexicans tho, bc anyone who has, understands how stupid it is to put Mexicans at the top of the fear list. I'd be more afraid they would invite me into their house for tacos when I really just wanted to play basketball (an actual problem that I have experienced in the real world) rather than them coming across the border hell bent on committing a bunch of crimes (a fictitious narrative dreamed up by ppl who just want to hate other ppl out loud, and don't really care who that is or whether their narrative is true).

dyqik wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 11, 2024 4:46 pm

Tristan wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 11, 2024 4:39 pm

Fascinating thread here on a realignment that's going on in US politics with increasing support for Republicans amongst Black and minority ethnic groups: https://x.com/jburnmurdoch/status/17671 ... 65639?s=20

As the US becomes less racially segregated socially conservative voters from racial groups who traditionally voted Democrat are becoming less worried about voting Republican. It seems that when your whole social group is from your own racial group then social norms are stronger and you'll keep voting Democrat like everyone else. But once you start mixing more with groups who already vote Republican (eg, whites) the social stigma of doing so drops and you can start voting Republican.

Worrying trend for the Democrats!

You really think that large numbers of minorities are going to vote for the party that is openly anti-Latino, anti-Black, anti-Asian and antisemitic, and that regularly espouses white-replacement theories?

Probably quite a few will even if doesn’t make sense and between the industrial scale gerrymandering by the GOP and the effects of the electoral college it could easily have worrying effects.

Stranger Mouse wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 13, 2024 2:40 pm

dyqik wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 11, 2024 4:46 pm

Tristan wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 11, 2024 4:39 pm

Fascinating thread here on a realignment that's going on in US politics with increasing support for Republicans amongst Black and minority ethnic groups: https://x.com/jburnmurdoch/status/17671 ... 65639?s=20

As the US becomes less racially segregated socially conservative voters from racial groups who traditionally voted Democrat are becoming less worried about voting Republican. It seems that when your whole social group is from your own racial group then social norms are stronger and you'll keep voting Democrat like everyone else. But once you start mixing more with groups who already vote Republican (eg, whites) the social stigma of doing so drops and you can start voting Republican.

Worrying trend for the Democrats!

You really think that large numbers of minorities are going to vote for the party that is openly anti-Latino, anti-Black, anti-Asian and antisemitic, and that regularly espouses white-replacement theories?

Probably quite a few will even if doesn’t make sense and between the industrial scale gerrymandering by the GOP and the effects of the electoral college it could easily have worrying effects.

Exactly. It doesn't have to be a majority or even that many for it to start having an impact.

Some of the thinking around this seems a bit complacent, almost like "Of course these people will never vote against their own interests (as we've assumed them to be)". People vote against what others would think of as being their best interests all the time. Brexit is a good example of that.

Tristan wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 13, 2024 5:06 pm

Stranger Mouse wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 13, 2024 2:40 pm

dyqik wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 11, 2024 4:46 pm

You really think that large numbers of minorities are going to vote for the party that is openly anti-Latino, anti-Black, anti-Asian and antisemitic, and that regularly espouses white-replacement theories?

Probably quite a few will even if doesn’t make sense and between the industrial scale gerrymandering by the GOP and the effects of the electoral college it could easily have worrying effects.

Exactly. It doesn't have to be a majority or even that many for it to start having an impact.

Some of the thinking around this seems a bit complacent, almost like "Of course these people will never vote against their own interests (as we've assumed them to be)". People vote against what others would think of as being their best interests all the time. Brexit is a good example of that.

This isn't complacent thinking. It's basic skepticism of biased reporting of very weak data that contradicts actual election results.