Scrutable

In publishing draft guidelines for consultation (Guardian report) on the approach to trans children in schools, the government seems to have suddenly gone all culture wars anti-trans on us.

Particularly notable in my mind is an observation that schools should balance the interests of the child against the broader interests of the school, which makes me wonder what detriment to the school could they possibly have in mind - offending the transphobic? Only rarely should schools accede to a child's request to change name/pronoun. Traditional categories of girls and boys should be firmly adhered to.

Stonewall, the LBGT+ charity, compared the guidance to the “chilling effect” caused by the 1988 section 28 regulation that banned schools discussing homosexuality.

Which was my immediate reaction listening to reports on the radio.

In referencing social media influence, it seems to be giving credence to the controversial and very weakly supported ROGD theory. Given the Tavistock clinic was criticised for giving experimental treatments, this seems to be doing just what they were criticised for doing.

It's only a consultation at the moment, and is going to get strong criticism. In the best interpretation, they are playing to the gallery, and something a bit more balanced will come out of it. But they seem to revel in being the Nasty Party these days. But it's no surprise that the even further right wing of the Tories, such as Braverman, snipes that it doesn't go far enough, because of limitations due to the law, so some seriously illiberal new primary legislation should be brought forward. Curiously similar to something else.

This was immediately preceded by a statement by Badenoch they bullying in schools would not be tolerated.

Calling someone by names they don't wish to be called by is, of course, bullying.

If the guidance is implemented as currently drafted, children will die as a result. Expecting schools to have a standard policy of rejecting pronoun changes and social transition is an appalling start point. It's a shame that so many in the liberal/"sceptical" community are so comfortable cosying up to the likes of Badenoch and Braverman and other far right figures on this.

Kids are susceptible to social pressure and do change their minds about things. But they figure it all out for themselves, as long as they don’t make irreversible changes to their bodies before they are really ready to they should be free to explore pronouns etc. I believe the evidence shows that people don’t make changes too early.

Identity exploration tends to happen at the onset of puberty in my experience. They settle down into one identity given time.

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 1:24 pm If the guidance is implemented as currently drafted, children will die as a result. Expecting schools to have a standard policy of rejecting pronoun changes and social transition is an appalling start point. It's a shame that so many in the liberal/"sceptical" community are so comfortable cosying up to the likes of Badenoch and Braverman and other far right figures on this.

What would happen if schools ignored the guidance and acted in a more humane way?

Tessa K wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 1:42 pm

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 1:24 pm If the guidance is implemented as currently drafted, children will die as a result. Expecting schools to have a standard policy of rejecting pronoun changes and social transition is an appalling start point. It's a shame that so many in the liberal/"sceptical" community are so comfortable cosying up to the likes of Badenoch and Braverman and other far right figures on this.

What would happen if schools ignored the guidance and acted in a more humane way?

The right wing press scream about the school for a month or so. Tory MPs weigh in about how bad it is. Labour um and ah about it trying to be on both sides, but end up pleasing no one. Other parties are ignored. Most people talking about it forget that there's a vulnerable kid or kids involved.

monkey wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 2:28 pm

Tessa K wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 1:42 pm

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 1:24 pm If the guidance is implemented as currently drafted, children will die as a result. Expecting schools to have a standard policy of rejecting pronoun changes and social transition is an appalling start point. It's a shame that so many in the liberal/"sceptical" community are so comfortable cosying up to the likes of Badenoch and Braverman and other far right figures on this.

What would happen if schools ignored the guidance and acted in a more humane way?

The right wing press scream about the school for a month or so. Tory MPs weigh in about how bad it is. Labour um and ah about it trying to be on both sides, but end up pleasing no one. Other parties are ignored. Most people talking about it forget that there's a vulnerable kid or kids involved.

Only if someone complains though. Otherwise, how will it be monitored?

Tessa K wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 2:55 pm

monkey wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 2:28 pm

Tessa K wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 1:42 pm What would happen if schools ignored the guidance and acted in a more humane way?

The right wing press scream about the school for a month or so. Tory MPs weigh in about how bad it is. Labour um and ah about it trying to be on both sides, but end up pleasing no one. Other parties are ignored. Most people talking about it forget that there's a vulnerable kid or kids involved.

Only if someone complains though. Otherwise, how will it be monitored?

The guidance has no legal force. The purpose of the guidance is supposedly to help teachers to do the right thing. It is not something whose purpose is to be monitored and enforced, it's not that kind of an instrument.

But it is strongly debatable whether this draft achieves that - ie being helpful - at all. One of the concerns that is being raised is that you could be breaking the law by following the guidance, rather than doing the right thin for the individual case.

I am so full of admiration for the parents of Brianna Ghey: their recognition of, and sympathy for, the loss their daughter's killers' families must be feeling.

IvanV wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 6:31 pm

Tessa K wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 2:55 pm

monkey wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 2:28 pm
The right wing press scream about the school for a month or so. Tory MPs weigh in about how bad it is. Labour um and ah about it trying to be on both sides, but end up pleasing no one. Other parties are ignored. Most people talking about it forget that there's a vulnerable kid or kids involved.

Only if someone complains though. Otherwise, how will it be monitored?

The guidance has no legal force. The purpose of the guidance is supposedly to help teachers to do the right thing. It is not something whose purpose is to be monitored and enforced, it's not that kind of an instrument.

As well as it having no legal force, the document is just a draft for consultation issued in the fag end of a government that will be voted out in less than a year. The whole point of the document is to generate publicity and social media attention from the remaining a..eholes that still consider voting Tory. Hopefully everyone working in education will give it all the attention that it deserves, which is none at all.

The government's own lawyers told them the guidance would leave both them and schools open to being sued. As usual, they ignored the expert advice

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67794387

The non-statutory guidance advises teachers that parents should be informed of any request made by a pupil to change their gender identity at school, with the exception of "exceptionally rare" circumstances where teachers believe telling parents could put a child at "significant" risk of harm.

This, for instance, would appear to fall foul of the precedent set in the case of the loathsome Gillick.

Of course, the institutionally transphobic Observer posted an editorial supporting the guidance. Ah well.