Scrutable

The comments btl
Never go btl.

Opti wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:13 pm The comments btl
Never go btl.

You can always pop over to the guardian, where Owen Jones is telling us it's Hard Remainers' fault that we're getting such a sh.t Brexit... although interestingly it's a comment free opinion piece.

UK formally offers to amend the Internal Market Bill if there is a deal.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... d-protocol

Not much changed as it was always assumed that it would.

FlammableFlower wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:50 pm

Opti wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:13 pm The comments btl
Never go btl.

You can always pop over to the guardian, where Owen Jones is telling us it's Hard Remainers' fault that we're getting such a sh.t Brexit... although interestingly it's a comment free opinion piece.

You know you're on the right side of history when Owen Jones argues against you.

malbui wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:12 pm

FlammableFlower wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:50 pm

Opti wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:13 pm The comments btl
Never go btl.

You can always pop over to the guardian, where Owen Jones is telling us it's Hard Remainers' fault that we're getting such a sh.t Brexit... although interestingly it's a comment free opinion piece.

You know you're on the right side of history when Owen Jones argues against you.

It's really not surprising that Owen Jones drivel isn't open for comments. It's ripe for some forensic fisking.

malbui wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:12 pm

FlammableFlower wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:50 pm

Opti wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:13 pm The comments btl
Never go btl.

You can always pop over to the guardian, where Owen Jones is telling us it's Hard Remainers' fault that we're getting such a sh.t Brexit... although interestingly it's a comment free opinion piece.

You know you're on the right side of history when Owen Jones argues against you.

Owen Jones has argued against every position though.

malbui wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:12 pm

FlammableFlower wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:50 pm

Opti wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:13 pm The comments btl
Never go btl.

You can always pop over to the guardian, where Owen Jones is telling us it's Hard Remainers' fault that we're getting such a sh.t Brexit... although interestingly it's a comment free opinion piece.

You know you're on the right side of history when Owen Jones argues against you.

To be fair, Peter Mandelson made a similar point a few days ago, though in more measured terms.

If that useless, beardy magic grandad had just ... oh, never mind, we lost. Get over it.

I happened to visit a page of one of the tabloid newspapers today, and it flashed a headline "Johnson is willing to not break international law". If that is really considered to be one of the UK's bargaining chips, things are not looking good.

Joint statement, by Johnson and von der Leyen, significant differences remain on level playing field, governance and fish.
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/ ... 64803?s=21

Which means that after talking for getting on for two hours they’ve made no progress.

They’ve asked the negotiators to prepare an overview of the differences, to be discussed in Brussels ‘in the coming days’.

So Johnson and von der Leyen will have a face-to-face meeting, presumably before Thursday. Whether it’s a final roll of the dice or a piece of choreography remains to be seen.

He’s going to Brussels which doesn’t half suggest he’s the junior party...

The UK will thrive with No Deal. Why are they even bothering with further negotiations?

plodder wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 pm He’s going to Brussels which doesn’t half suggest he’s the junior party...

What's the betting he’s going to Brussels to party with juniors, to pick up a new girlfriend?

Brightonian wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:59 pm

plodder wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 pm He’s going to Brussels which doesn’t half suggest he’s the junior party...

What's the betting he’s going to Brussels to party with juniors, to pick up a new girlfriend?

While he still can because he passport will be invalid after the 31st just like mine was.

Woodchopper wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:23 pm

malbui wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:12 pm

FlammableFlower wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:50 pm

You can always pop over to the guardian, where Owen Jones is telling us it's Hard Remainers' fault that we're getting such a sh.t Brexit... although interestingly it's a comment free opinion piece.

You know you're on the right side of history when Owen Jones argues against you.

To be fair, Peter Mandelson made a similar point a few days ago, though in more measured terms.

Great thread on Jones, Mandelson and soft Brexit.
https://twitter.com/emporersnewc/status ... 89252?s=21

The European Union will launch contingency measures on Wednesday or Thursday if it has been unable to reach agreement by then with Britain on a trade deal, a senior EU diplomat said on Monday.

The diplomat said the move would be necessary because “it will be roughly three weeks left until the end of the transition period” that ends on Dec. 31.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-brit ... SKBN28A2P3

Johnson wants his Churchill moment. He thinks he's the next Churchill, a Churchill for the 21st Century, greater perhaps than the great man himself. He's even written a book about Churchill (one that was derided as being badly written and embarrassingly inaccurate in its history). Everything about Johnson is schoolboy patriotism and grandiose belief.

So his dream is to come back from Brussels in triumph, just like Churchill returning from Munich in 1938. Johnson will wave the agreement in victory. "I have in my hand a piece of paper signed by the EU giving us trade in our time". Like Churchill he'll be presented on the Buckingham Place balcony to the adoring crowds below. The House of Commons will rise to its feet and applaud, the people of the grateful nation will cluster round radios to hear his speech.

Johnson is understandably annoyed that reality is preventing him from matching Churchill.

Meanwhile, in Number 10, an aide has his head in his hands. There was the first time when he should have corrected the Prime Minister. But he let it slide. Thought it was just a slip of the tongue by Johnson. Which made it awkward to correct him the second time. And then ever more awkward each time after. Until he found himself nodding along whenever the Prime Minister described his dream of repeating Churchill's 1938 negotiating triumph at a last minute conference.

And now the country will be trashed because of a mistake that a lowly aide was too embarrassed to correct.

malbui wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:12 pm

FlammableFlower wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:50 pm

Opti wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:13 pm The comments btl
Never go btl.

You can always pop over to the guardian, where Owen Jones is telling us it's Hard Remainers' fault that we're getting such a sh.t Brexit... although interestingly it's a comment free opinion piece.

You know you're on the right side of history when Owen Jones argues against you.

the problem is, though, if you wait long enough, Owen Jones will argue against anything, including his own previously-held positions.

El Pollo Diablo wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:02 pm the problem is, though, if you wait long enough, Owen Jones will argue against anything, including his own previously-held positions.

Yeah, but if Owen Jones has changed his mind it means that reality has changed just before and so he's still heading in the wrong direction.

shpalman wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:52 pm ... Gove has also confirmed that the government is now abandoning the provisions in the internal market bill that would have undermined the withdrawal agreement, as well as plans for related provisions in forthcoming taxation bill. The Cabinet Office news release says:

In view of these mutually agreed solutions, the UK will withdraw clauses 44, 45 and 47 of the UK internal market bill, and not introduce any similar provisions in the taxation bill.

These were the provisions that the government admitted broke international law (“in a specific and limited way”).

Interesting. They must have realised that was a bluff too far.

So now that bit of poisonous stupidity is off the table, all that's left to sort out is all the stuff they've been arguing about for 4 years with no obvious solution presenting itself.

Wonder if this will be the start of a general climbdown from the UK away from all its cakeist impossible demands.

shpalman wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:52 pm ... Gove has also confirmed that the government is now abandoning the provisions in the internal market bill that would have undermined the withdrawal agreement, as well as plans for related provisions in forthcoming taxation bill. The Cabinet Office news release says:

In view of these mutually agreed solutions, the UK will withdraw clauses 44, 45 and 47 of the UK internal market bill, and not introduce any similar provisions in the taxation bill.

These were the provisions that the government admitted broke international law (“in a specific and limited way”).

Good news in its self, and will make an agreement between Johnson and von der Leyen easier tomorrow. Though major problems still remain.