Scrutable

So the low/medium correlation is stronger than the others, making it a high correlation relative to the noise. Is that you meant to say?

plodder wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:35 pm So the low/medium correlation is stronger than the others, making it a high correlation relative to the noise. Is that you meant to say?

It's only low/medium in one paper where IQ is shown as having a stronger correlation. Other literature shows a stronger correlation and IQ less important. We can affect conscientiousness more with cultural messages and policy though.

I wonder how much Laurence Fox's acting success depended on his innate talent and hard work, and how much due to being born into a multi-generational thespian family and attending Harrow School and RADA?

Is he successful? I mean, he is compared to me, but I've never tried. Perhaps he's a failure - maybe he has been introduced to all the top Hollywood directors and his relatives have begged every casting agent to give him a break. Perhaps one of his family refused to take a part unless the production company also gave young Laurence a role.

And all he ended up with was playing the sidekick to a detective in a murder mystery show where the detective was the sidekick to another detective.

lpm wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:33 pm Is he successful? I mean, he is compared to me, but I've never tried. Perhaps he's a failure - maybe he has been introduced to all the top Hollywood directors and his relatives have begged every casting agent to give him a break. Perhaps one of his family refused to take a part unless the production company also gave young Laurence a role.

And all he ended up with was playing the sidekick to a detective in a murder mystery show where the detective was the sidekick to another detective.

A quick look at 'his' IMBD page suggests that isn't all he's done.

I’d not heard of him before. Is he going to go down the monetisation of outrage route do we think?

I do not understand the excitement about Laurence Fox and I don't think I want to.

Entertainment, journalism and politics seem like the most nepotistic professions as far as I can tell. It's not necessarily easy to unpick how much of it is 'being raised by people who understand the business and teach their kids useful skills' and how much is straightforward deal-making and string-pulling as LPM describes, but it's obviously there.

You don't understand how being deliberately provocative attracts attention? Surprising.

plodder wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:00 pm You don't understand how being deliberately provocative attracts attention? Surprising.

I haven't seen the thing he did that gave him his 15 minutes of fame. Is it worth watching?

sheldrake wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:41 pm

plodder wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:00 pm You don't understand how being deliberately provocative attracts attention? Surprising.

I haven't seen the thing he did that gave him his 15 minutes of fame. Is it worth watching?

The first thing I saw him in was an episode of Foyle's War where he played a Nazi sympathiser. It appeared as if he wasn't acting at all (which either makes him very good, or …)

sheldrake wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:41 pm

plodder wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:00 pm You don't understand how being deliberately provocative attracts attention? Surprising.

I haven't seen the thing he did that gave him his 15 minutes of fame. Is it worth watching?

Neither have I. Apparently he said someone was racist for suggesting he benefitted from white privilege.

plodder wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:23 am

sheldrake wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:41 pm

plodder wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:00 pm You don't understand how being deliberately provocative attracts attention? Surprising.

I haven't seen the thing he did that gave him his 15 minutes of fame. Is it worth watching?

Neither have I. Apparently he said someone was racist for suggesting he benefitted from white privilege.

He's the son of a famous rich white actor, not much doubt he's benefited from his background. There will be loads of poor white people in sh.t estates applauding what he said though. Real Intersectional theory includes social class as a component, I think the left needs to pay more attention to that to stop their core support getting captured by the other side.

sheldrake wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:34 pm

plodder wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:23 am

sheldrake wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:41 pm

I haven't seen the thing he did that gave him his 15 minutes of fame. Is it worth watching?

Neither have I. Apparently he said someone was racist for suggesting he benefitted from white privilege.

He's the son of a famous rich white actor, not much doubt he's benefited from his background. There will be loads of poor white people in sh.t estates applauding what he said though. Real Intersectional theory includes social class as a component, I think the left needs to pay more attention to that to stop their core support getting captured by the other side.

I'm not sure about the UK - but that's not the case in the US:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... h-gap.html

Or from the NYT companion piece:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... k-men.html

As this chart shows, a black man raised by two parents together in the 90th percentile — making around $140,000 a year — earns about the same in adulthood as a white man raised by a single mother making $60,000 alone.

jimbob wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:18 pm

sheldrake wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:34 pm

plodder wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:23 am

Neither have I. Apparently he said someone was racist for suggesting he benefitted from white privilege.

He's the son of a famous rich white actor, not much doubt he's benefited from his background. There will be loads of poor white people in sh.t estates applauding what he said though. Real Intersectional theory includes social class as a component, I think the left needs to pay more attention to that to stop their core support getting captured by the other side.

I'm not sure about the UK - but that's not the case in the US:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... h-gap.html

Or from the NYT companion piece:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... k-men.html

As this chart shows, a black man raised by two parents together in the 90th percentile — making around $140,000 a year — earns about the same in adulthood as a white man raised by a single mother making $60,000 alone.

If you lived in a crap council estate in Hull, as had your parents and grandparents, how would you evaluate this post by a liberal on t'internet about something in the US ?

sheldrake wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:25 pm

jimbob wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:18 pm

sheldrake wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:34 pm

He's the son of a famous rich white actor, not much doubt he's benefited from his background. There will be loads of poor white people in sh.t estates applauding what he said though. Real Intersectional theory includes social class as a component, I think the left needs to pay more attention to that to stop their core support getting captured by the other side.

I'm not sure about the UK - but that's not the case in the US:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... h-gap.html

Or from the NYT companion piece:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... k-men.html

As this chart shows, a black man raised by two parents together in the 90th percentile — making around $140,000 a year — earns about the same in adulthood as a white man raised by a single mother making $60,000 alone.

If you lived in a crap council estate in Hull, as had your parents and grandparents, how would you evaluate this post by a liberal on t'internet about something in the US ?

I don't have data about the effects of class vs race in the UK but do have some in the US.

It's enough to show that class can be trumped by race in some situations. I found that surprising - previously thinking (like you*) that wealth would have acted as an insulator. Having seen that for the US - I am now unsure whether that is the case for the UK as well.


*Unless you do have some evidence for your assertion.

jimbob wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:38 pm

*Unless you do have some evidence for your assertion.

I'm not very clear what assertion you think I've made.

sheldrake wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:44 pm

jimbob wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:38 pm

*Unless you do have some evidence for your assertion.

I'm not very clear what assertion you think I've made.

There was an implication that class was more important than race in the UK to someone's prospects.

jimbob wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:57 pm

sheldrake wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:44 pm

jimbob wrote: Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:38 pm

*Unless you do have some evidence for your assertion.

I'm not very clear what assertion you think I've made.

There was an implication that class was more important than race in the UK to someone's prospects.

Where?

sheldrake wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:44 pm
Entertainment, journalism and politics seem like the most nepotistic professions as far as I can tell. It's not necessarily easy to unpick how much of it is 'being raised by people who understand the business and teach their kids useful skills' and how much is straightforward deal-making and string-pulling as LPM describes, but it's obviously there.

The main problem that I see around me is that entry into the media is based upon very low paid or not paid at all jobs (sometimes called internships but rarely meeting the definition). Which basically means that people starting out in can rarely support themselves in the first couple of years of working nowadays, they either have to do second jobs (difficult when the media routinely demands that you give up your working hours rights and work silly variable hours) or far more usually they are financially supported by their parents.

I sometimes see obvious nepotism, but it's not all that common. I got into what I do through a couple of low paid jobs but managed because the rent for a room wasn't as punishing back in the '80s as it is now (I doubt anyone from my kind of background could do it today for that reason).

I nearly ended up with a media career (writing) through a friend in the industry who got me some work writing copy and who made it clear the door was swinging open. If I'd applied myself* I've no doubt I could have made something work, but it would have been extremely tenuous to start with.

My social contacts helped, but it took until my mid 30's to know someone in the industry, rather than fresh out of school or through family contacts, and financial stability would have meant it would have been far easier to take the plunge.



* = i.e. if I had been any good and not completely hated it, to my own surprise.

plodder wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:47 am I nearly ended up with a media career (writing) through a friend in the industry who got me some work writing copy and who made it clear the door was swinging open. If I'd applied myself* I've no doubt I could have made something work, but it would have been extremely tenuous to start with.

My social contacts helped, but it took until my mid 30's to know someone in the industry, rather than fresh out of school or through family contacts, and financial stability would have meant it would have been far easier to take the plunge.



* = i.e. if I had been any good and not completely hated it, to my own surprise.

TBH, writing is still very unsteady and not well paid for the vast majority. I went for a technical traineeship and learnt all about tape recording (videotape and audio), video switchers, etc, so I had a recognisable skill. Which is all out of date now but it got me started when businesses needed tape ops to run their gear.

We're hosting a seminar tomorrow
" Richard Noble OBE*
Delivering large high technology innovation projects in a country which specialises in obfuscation!

This is a superb opportunity to gain real insight into how to pursue successful entrepreneurial programmes across multiple sectors. Richard Noble is a very engaging speaker and has a wealth of experience in delivering successful projects.
"

With the uninspiring title as above, that immediately made me think of this thread. Anyone come up a tactful way to ask how much was due to luck?

TBH though I'm unlikely to attend as it sounds dull.
*If like me you've never heard of him - apparently he helped get a fast car made. It has zero direct relevance to any of the science we do.