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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 1:58 am
by Pishwish
I have no expertise on historical or military matters, so I can't really decide whether he is right or not about whether you have to choose between having a useful navy or army.
I was very surprised by how neglected Ukraine's military had become:
Nothing motivates as hard as an existential threat. First, Ukrainians admitted the truth:
«I'll be frank. Today we have no army. Now we can assemble a group of 5 thousand capable soldiers max [out of 125 on paper]"
- reported minister of defence in 2014
In 2014 Ukrainian equipment was awful. Almost 100% vehicle and ammunition were 25+ year old Soviet stocks. Moreover, most of it just expired. Like vehicles existed on paper but were never checked or used since 1991. Their radiators, accumulators all rotten and unrepairable
Judging by the interviews with insurgents who were disappointed to find that rockets, shells, grenades taken from Ukrainian warehouses were 99% dysfunctional (ofc, they were 25+ years old) it's not surprising Ukraine lost to Russia in 2014. It's surprising they could fight at all
I kind of thought that Soviet machines would be easy to fix, like Ladas or the MiG-21. Of course, if stuff isn't maintained it will go to pot especially in a country with poor governance. Presumably munitions degrade because of the inherent instability of high explosives, or maybe there's electrochemical reactions going on too.
Anyway, looks like they learned their lesson, like the British did after the Boer War.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:44 am
by Woodchopper
Thread on the meaning of Putin’s announcement about Russia’s nuclear forces:
https://twitter.com/russianforces/statu ... 43042?s=21
I appear to be losing some sleep over this. But that’s probably an over reaction.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:49 am
by Herainestold
I'm worried too. Very worried.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 6:43 am
by Grumble
Iron Magpie wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 12:19 am
There have been 2056 nuclear bombs detonated (in tests not sure if it includes the two in anger). I imagine that each one was probably filmed*. I think that qualifies as "many".
*probably from more than one angle/camera....
Quite a few of those were underground, though I don’t know the proportion.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 6:50 am
by bob sterman
Stephanie wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 9:19 pm
Erm... I believe jqh knows about Parkinson's
OK.
The information I posted was from the Parkinson's Foundation (USA) and Parkinson's UK - 2 major charities. People can make of this what they will.
I should just point out that I did write that PD and drug treatments "can" cause cognitive changes - not that they inevitably will, so it "could" be of relevance. Many people do have a pure motor form of the disease.
On a personal level - jqh - if you've got personal/family experience of this then of course I'm very sorry to hear that. I've also got some personal/family experience in this area and we may have seen different parts of the Parkinson's spectrum.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:56 am
by headshot
Herainestold wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:49 am
I'm worried too. Very worried.
But that’s your MO, so…
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 12:08 pm
by lpm
Looks like the razing of Kharkiv has begun.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 12:16 pm
by Bird on a Fire
Paris (AFP) – The Russian head of delegation at a major UN climate conference apologised for his country's invasion of Ukraine on Sunday, which he said lacked justification, according to several sources who heard him speak at the virtual meeting.
The surprise intervention from Russia’s Oleg Anisimov at the closed-door meeting followed an electrifying live statement from his Ukranian counterpart, Svitlana Krakovska, who spoke passionately about her country's plight.
"Let me present an apology on behalf of all Russians not able to prevent this conflict," Anisimov said at the closing plenary of the virtual, 195-nation forum, according to three sources who heard him speak.
Delegates and observers to the sometimes fraught meetings, which had been scheduled to end Friday, were stunned by the back-to-back statements Sunday, according to half-a-dozen participants.
Those who see what is happening, he added speaking in Russian, "fail to find any justification for the attack on Ukraine".
"We will not surrender in Ukraine, and we hope the world will not surrender in building a climate resilient future," she said in English, according to multiple sources.
"Human-induced climate change and the war on Ukraine have the same roots -- fossil fuels -- and our dependence on them," she added.
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/2 ... imate-meet
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 12:24 pm
by sTeamTraen
I wonder what would happen if the Russians dropped a low-yield nuke on a medium-sized German town (like Bielefeld, which Germans joke "doesn't really exist")? Would Biden risk an escalation to ICBMs to take out a couple of Russian airfields the same way? Would Johnson or Macron, assuming that either of their "independent" deterrents are actually capable of being fired without American approval?
It occurs to me that the last thing we should be doing is expelling Russian diplomats from our capitals, the oligarchs from our resorts, and their children from our expensive private schools. It might become the only thing that would cause them to stand up to Putin if he really goes, as Ben Wallace said, "Full tonto".
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 12:41 pm
by El Pollo Diablo
Hard to imagine that there could be a worse foreign secretary than Boris Johnson, isn't it? And yet.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 12:44 pm
by Iron Magpie
Grumble wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 6:43 am
Iron Magpie wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 12:19 am
There have been 2056 nuclear bombs detonated (in tests not sure if it includes the two in anger). I imagine that each one was probably filmed*. I think that qualifies as "many".
*probably from more than one angle/camera....
Quite a few of those were underground, though I don’t know the proportion.
528 were atmospheric, not including the two in anger. That is still many.
Info from here....
https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/nucleartesttally
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 12:49 pm
by Martin Y
Grumble wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 6:43 am
Iron Magpie wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 12:19 am
There have been 2056 nuclear bombs detonated (in tests not sure if it includes the two in anger). I imagine that each one was probably filmed*. I think that qualifies as "many".
*probably from more than one angle/camera....
Quite a few of those were underground, though I don’t know the proportion.
About three quarters were underground. 520 atmospheric tests, 8 underwater, the rest underground. Film of most of those will be over 60 years old. Last known atmospheric test is by China in 1980.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 12:55 pm
by Brightonian
Liz Truss was the cause, says Kremlin.
I would not call the authors of these statements by name, although it was the British foreign minister.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 1:32 pm
by Woodchopper
Picture of today’s talks. The Ukrainians are sending a message with their choice of clothing.
- 858A37B8-7710-4528-8411-A4339DA84EFC.jpeg (71.03 KiB) Viewed 2848 times
ETA different angle:
- 08A261BB-3F2C-4997-8C37-78806B325ADC.jpeg (82.93 KiB) Viewed 2842 times
This detail is quite remarkable. While at work diplomats always wear either a business suit or national dress. They’d never turn up to negotiations dressed like that. The Ukrainian choice of clothes is a sartorial ‘go f.ck yourselves’.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:25 pm
by plodder
Yeah, they're full on Bruce Springsteen.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:32 pm
by El Pollo Diablo
BBC
is reporting that FIFA are going to suspend Russia until further notice, and that the IOC will recommend they and Belarus are banned from any international competitions ("organised" competitions, that is - not sure if they'll be allowed in disorganised competitions).
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:48 pm
by Stranger Mouse
lpm wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 12:08 pm
Looks like the razing of Kharkiv has begun.
This looks horrible
https://twitter.com/christogrozev/statu ... 77024?s=21
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:53 pm
by El Pollo Diablo
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:02 pm
by Stranger Mouse
The Russian guy at the United Nations is gaslighting right now at a level even greater than previous Russian statements. He’s gone full “see what you made us do”
In other news Switzerland is joining in sanctions
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:54 pm
by JQH
She doesn't know any other way to be.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:55 pm
by TopBadger
Its only gaslighting if the other party doubts their own understanding of events based on what they hear.
This is just outright and obvious lies... no gas or doubt involved.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:58 pm
by bjn
JQH wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:54 pm
She doesn't know any other way to be.
Chap I know used to report directly to her as a civil servant. He utterly despises her, she really is as mean and stupid as we think she is.
He's said this all publically on social media, so I'm not outing the poor chap.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:12 pm
by Gfamily
Times cartoon
- 274872561_10158093980136330_7569115661198562369_n.jpg (141.29 KiB) Viewed 2672 times
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:48 pm
by Stranger Mouse
FIFA officially suspend all Russian teams from matches
https://twitter.com/uefa/status/1498351 ... 61126?s=21
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 7:29 pm
by Stranger Mouse
Russian Foreign Ministry doubles down on the “Ukrainians are Nazis” thing
https://twitter.com/mid_rf/status/14983 ... 06850?s=21
