Scrutable

In news that will surprise absolutely nobody it turns out the run up to the clip we’ve seen adds quite a bit of context.

It doesn’t excuse what the officer did, and he absolutely needs punishing in the appropriate way for it. But anyone with any empathy would understand why he’d want to boot the guy in the head. It’s just that he’s trained not to give in to those urges in the way anyone else would.

So yes, he needs charging. But the guy he booted also likely needs to be in jail.

Fuller clip here: https://x.com/mennewsdesk/status/181726 ... iksLglQFYQ

<raises hand> I can confirm I am not even slightly surprised, with the possible exception of the speed with which the fight breaks out.

The now-suspended cop is on the left of the group making the arrest. He slams the guy in blue's head against the ticket machine. Guy in grey (blue's brother?) is moving around the group of cops toward that side and although agitated doesn't seem initially disposed to violence, but after the head slam he tries to pull suspended cop off blue guy and the fists start flying. Beginning with suspended cop's fists.

That cop's job was toast after we saw the first phone video, but this CCTV makes it worse. He started and escalated the violence. I'll be amazed if he only gets sacked.

Guys in grey and blue absolutely need the book throwing at them. The officer shouldn’t have kicked him, but nothing excuses what they did either.

Tristan wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2024 4:53 pm Guys in grey and blue absolutely need the book throwing at them. The officer shouldn’t have kicked him, but nothing excuses what they did either.

It reminds me of a very good guest on The Life Scientific who talked about riots. Protesters think they're right and moral to protest. Riots are what you get when you police a demo badly enough that those people feel their rights are being oppressed by unjust authority and feel morally justified in resisting it. The police need to be a lot more professional than that because the crowd is only ever going to behave like crowds always do. Escalating the violence till you win isn't really winning in the CCTV/cellphone era.

Those two guys will undoubtedly get the book thrown at them, but there's little doubt in my mind they felt they were being attacked and would feel they were justified in defending themselves against violently oppressive police.

We’re clearly watching different videos here

Tristan wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2024 5:54 pm We’re clearly watching different videos here

Could be. I'm watching this one: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3gekjyq3j7o
About 9 seconds in, the officer on the left uses his right arm to smack the guy's head off the ticket machine. He might have thought that would subdue the man but instead it makes the man's brother intervene. Laying hands on the police isn't a brilliant plan, but it wasn't a plan, it was an instinctive reaction to his brother getting roughed up.

Robocop responds by throwing punches (who would have imagined: he didn't like being grabbed either) and letting go of the arrestee. Result is the brother punches him back multiple times before coming to his senses and relenting, while the arrestee can now break loose and fights off the other two police.

I'm not condoning attacking the police, and I'm certain the guys will have the book thrown at them. I'm saying people are just people and they reacted the way people do when attacked. The police created this mess.

Yeah. Not exactly a choice example of policing. Jumping someone from behind who is not currently being violent and slamming their head into a ticket machine will invoke fight or flight responses in them and their friends. Which kicked off the whole thing. The guy may have been an idiot before hand, but the police walked in and immediately dialed it up to 11 within seconds. No opportunity to de-escalate after that.

More police officers who are on the wrong side of the laws they are supposed to be upholding. I've put in their ages as I've been quite shocked with how young some of them are.

Leicestershire Police special constable William Heggs (age 23) has been charged with sharing crime scene images and information he got from police computers.

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West Mercia police officer Jamie Bunting (age 26), who was also a cadet leader, has been charged with making indecent images of children.

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Greater Manchester Police officer Stephanie Heaps (age 32) has been jailed for her role in her husband's organised crime gang. She met her husband when she was a prison officer, and he was in jail for murder. She didn't disclose their relationship and then joined Greater Manchester Police, also without disclosing the relationship.

On one occasion while on duty, Heaps also failed to arrest a wanted domestic abuse suspect while responding to an incident, due to the suspect being an associate of her husband.

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South Wales Police officer Ben Cooke (age 34) has been jailed for 6 years 4 months after pleading guilty to burglary, attempted burglary, theft of a key, unauthorised access to computer material with intent, and corrupt or improper use of police powers after he found out that a large amount of cash was likely being kept on a property. Pretending to have a warrant to search the property, he stole a safe containing £16k.

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Kent police officer Matthew Peall (age 47) is on trial after being accused of misconduct in a judicial or public office. He was sent to investigate the burglary at a care home and ended up sending 'flirtatious' texts, emails and phone calls to one of the employees after getting her witness statement.

[Prosecutor] Ms Dickinson said: "To distract him she pointed out he had a wife and children. He told her, 'well it would just be for sex' and this made her uncomfortable." He allegedly told her "it's sex, nothing more, you know my situation" and mentioned protection because he didn't want any more children "running around".

...

She did not know if he was the sort of person who would turn up to her house unannounced and so she did not want to annoy him ... In various attempts to deflect attention away from her, she would ask Peall what he meant by what he said or by switching the conversation back to the investigation."

"She wanted to engage with the police investigation as the victims of the crimes being investigated were elderly and clients of the company she worked for but she was also conscious that she did not want to upset him, particularly as she had no idea what type of person he was."

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Warwickshire Police detective sergeant Paul Whitehurst (age 53) has been jailed after admitting five charges of assault by beating after he repeatedly attacked his ex-girlfriend, punching her and throwing her across the room.

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Essex Police officer Jodie Cleminson (age unknown) has been found guilty of gross misconduct and banned from policing after it was found she was in a relationship with a cocaine dealer. She knew he was a drug dealer, did drugs with him and told him of police presence in areas where he was attempting to sell drugs - information she only knew from being in the police.

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A few from the Met Police for good measure:

Met police officer Cliff Mitchell (aged 24) has been jailed for a minimum of 13 years after being convicted of 10 counts of rape, including three of raping a child under the age of 13.

The court heard during his trial how Mitchell had kidnapped and raped one of his two victims while armed with a knife in September 2023, telling her to put her arms behind her back, before tying her up with cable ties and putting tape over her mouth.

The jury was told he laughed at her as she cried, told her she was a sl.t and that no-one would believe her if she said anything because he was a police officer.

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Met police officer Lee Morrell (age 39) has been extradited from the US after admitting to taking bribes in a corrupt relationship with a West End security boss.

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Met police detective constable Jose Poonsawat (age unknown) is to be sentenced later this week after he pleaded guilty to sexual assault.

A misconduct hearing over DC Poonsawat’s future in the force will now take place.

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Met police officer Christopher Gudgeon (age unknown) has been charged with sexual assault. I've been unable to find any further details.

Thanks for those fishnut.

Gotta say that this one reads like the plot of a TV series.

Greater Manchester Police officer Stephanie Heaps (age 32) has been jailed for her role in her husband's organised crime gang. She met her husband when she was a prison officer, and he was in jail for murder. She didn't disclose their relationship and then joined Greater Manchester Police, also without disclosing the relationship.

In international police fuckery news, German police officers on holiday beat up a taxi driver.

They just keep coming.

I don't follow other professions so I don't know how the police force compares to others, but given that the police are supposed to be upholding the law, the fact so many of them end up in prison for often violent offences really does suggest there's a problem with vetting during the recruitment process.

Police Scotland officer Christopher Ferguson, 31, has been convicted on charges including assault, stalking and threatening behaviour and sentenced to three years and nine months in prison, as well as being given a non-harassment order and placed on the sex offenders register for 10 years. Honestly, it seems he got off lightly. His offences took place over 14 years and,

One of the victims told how Ferguson punched and grabbed her...

A second woman said she was repeatedly pinned to the floor and choked by Ferguson, while she and her family were subjected to unwanted calls and messages.

A third victim was shoved down a flight of stairs and had an ironing board thrown at her.

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Former Police Scotland officer Roderick Keith has been jailed for 61 weeks and placed on the sex offenders register for 10 years after pleading guilty to a charge of sexually penetrating a woman with his fingers while she was asleep. This is not the first time he's been to court for sexual assault - in 2020 he was given a non-custodial sentence for sexually assaulting a man while he was asleep.

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West Mercia police officer Evan Jones, 22, has pleaded not guilty to causing grievous bodily harm after an incident in July 2023. His trial is scheduled for 6 May 2025.

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And our token Met police story,
Former Metropolitan Police constable Lee Hargrave, 48, is has appeared in court after being charged with multiple offences including sexual activity with a child and voyeurism. I've not been able to find any stories since he appeared on 17 August but will try to keep an eye on his case.

Fishnut wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:10 am They just keep coming.

I don't follow other professions so I don't know how the police force compares to others, but given that the police are supposed to be upholding the law, the fact so many of them end up in prison for often violent offences really does suggest there's a problem with vetting during the recruitment process.

That's a good question. I had a look and in 2023 there were 249 cases of sexual misconduct committed by healthcare professionals. I don't think that there is much point trying to work out comparative rates as the cases which attract disciplinary proceedings will be the tip of the iceberg. But it seems that healthcare also has serious problems.

As for vetting, its going to be impossible to locate every potential officer who is at risk of committing sexual crimes. We know that the vast majority of incidents are not reported. If someone has previously got away with committing sex crimes without being reported then they'll have a clean record.

IMHO more important is to establish practices and a professional culture which mean that suspicions are acted upon quickly. This doesn't seem to be happening.

I dunno. I suspect corruption of all kinds is endemic in the police force. Which probably means that it goes fairly high up. And which is probably more difficult to tackle than a general unwillingness to own up to the scale of the problem in order to save face.

Woodchopper wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2024 11:21 am

Fishnut wrote: Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:10 am They just keep coming.

I don't follow other professions so I don't know how the police force compares to others, but given that the police are supposed to be upholding the law, the fact so many of them end up in prison for often violent offences really does suggest there's a problem with vetting during the recruitment process.

That's a good question. I had a look and in 2023 there were 249 cases of sexual misconduct committed by healthcare professionals. I don't think that there is much point trying to work out comparative rates as the cases which attract disciplinary proceedings will be the tip of the iceberg. But it seems that healthcare also has serious problems.

Just about any kind of location where people have some kind of potential for influential access to other people. Churches, sports clubs, schools, children's homes, etc.

My sister takes part in the process for disciplining dentists in relation to their fitness to practice, which covers both their practical dental skills as well as sexual misconduct, etc. You can look at all the decisions, one by one, but I can't find any stats on how many have been sanctioned for sexual misconduct. The first random decision I opened from the list of decisions was precisely that, but I opened some more and they weren't. We read that "dentists" think the fitness to practice panel is unduly harsh - there was an article in Private Eye that said so a few months ago. But my sister tells me the GDC itself would rather the fitness to practice panel - which has legal independence of action - was more severe. And for all the whinging from dentists about it, they have difficulty getting any engagement from them.

Met officer from same unit as David Carrick and Wayne Couzens charged with rape https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/art ... re_btn_url

Mark Tyrrell, 55, who was part of the parliamentary and diplomatic protection command, will appear at Westminster magistrates court on Wednesday. The former police constable faces criminal allegations spanning across six years including two charges of rape and 15 of sexual assault.

So another one

Former Met police officer Adam Merriman, 37, of Bletchley, Milton Keynes, has been charged with sexual assault by touching of a child under 13, six counts of arranging or facilitating the commission of a child sex offence, two counts of sexual activity in the presence of a child, three counts of making indecent images of a child, possession of extreme p.rnographic images and possession of a prohibited image of a child. He's due in court tomorrow (4/9/24)

I've started a spreadsheet of police misconduct cases. It's not systematic as it's based entirely on what news stories I come across but I'm already starting to see some trends (male officers are overwhelmingly sexual misconduct, female officers are too few to find trends but so far half are relationships with criminals). I am trying to make it more systematic and would welcome suggestions on how to improve the quality of the data.

If you have any cases you'd like to add you please do so.

I haven't figured out what - if anything - I'm going to do with this but I think it could be useful to keep a more formal list rather than the ad-hoc posts we've been making here.

Sounds like a useful thing to do. Something an investigative journalist should be doing; I wonder if any are.